December 13, 2006 at 11:42 am #2917
Hello paddlers. I just wanted to drop a quick note that I am back in the Ottawa area after a work trade stint in Vietnam. Vietnam is a wonderful country full of culture and history. They even have a rudimentary recumbent style bicycle.
Has anyone ever paddled in Vietnam?
POBODecember 15, 2006 at 5:16 pm #22467Open GateParticipant
Hey Pobo nice to have you back,
I read from the replies you’ve been getting that local paddlers haven’t paddle Nam alot.
Did you see anything interesting to paddle or any type of set up, outfitter that could organize safe river running ?
I’m also presuming that we wouldn’t want to explore the rivers of north Vietnam without AK47’s in our boats or support from the marines doing shuttles or something… ” title=”Very Happy” />
Hey open boats would have an edge over decked boats for carying amo and quick access to riffles so we could shout while paddling.
Hey ! single blade in one hand and rifle in the other.(That could work in some US cities… ” title=”Very Happy” /> )
Shout while you shout OK enough stupidity said…
Excuse my lack of Vietnamese culture, seen too many movies I guess.
Seen anything down there ?December 15, 2006 at 9:15 pm #22468Jenny Right-SideParticipant
Pat Camblin and crew are down there as we speak on an expedition of sorts. Hopefully we’ll get lots of info from them when they get back.December 19, 2006 at 10:02 pm #22469
However I wasn’t able to procure a whitewater kayak or gear while there. I travelled down the coast after flying into Hanoi and visit many beautiful places during my stay. My placement was in Vinh, which is a beautiful small coastal village which is very close to the Song Ca river. I was told that there was some whitewater there but unfortunately never made the trek to view it.
The Vietnam war seems to be a redundant theme with people in general. Mr. Open Gate, I suggest you travel there sometime for a taste of the real culture and a beautiful countryside. Forget the Vietnam conflict. Much like the current conflict in Afganistan, it was an attempt by the Americans(whom I have dubbed ‘The Destroyers of this World’) to strong-arm a civil war in a small country for profit.
POBODecember 20, 2006 at 2:31 pm #22470mark.dParticipant
I beleive the americains were trying to stop communisim,December 20, 2006 at 2:39 pm #22471"POBO":3sx6cjsk wrote:The Vietnam war seems to be a redundant theme with people in general. Mr. Open Gate, I suggest you travel there sometime for a taste of the real culture and a beautiful countryside. Forget the Vietnam conflict. Much like the current conflict in Afganistan, it was an attempt by the Americans(whom I have dubbed ‘The Destroyers of this World’) to strong-arm a civil war in a small country for profit. [/quote:3sx6cjsk]
Hate to derail things but I feel I have to respond.
The biggest similarity between Vietnam then and Iraq/Afghan now is all of the people on their high horses who bash foreign policy even when they are benefiting from it. So what if Iraq was REALLY about oil. It seems to me that oil is a big part of what makes western society go. If you have all of the oil rich countries run by maniacal dictators with a strong distane for the west, it won’t be long before they start selling more of their oil to china and other countries in the east. You think oil prices are bad now, wait until economists predict China has the oil capacity to get more cars on the road. Keep in mind these countries are quickly catching up in terms of self sufficiency while we outsource more of our jobs and become dependent on cheap foreign labour which will soon be not so cheap.
We’re not so innocent here.
Much of what we take for granted is from us having the geographical ability to piggyback US foreign policy without becoming directly involved.
Anyhow. I’m sick of everyone being high and mighty on their anti-war kick while we have good guys over there fighting to secure our future. If its about profit and money, its about keeping wealth and jobs in the west. Its about fighting to sustain our security and indirectly our ability to sit at work and post on whitewater forums. Not enough people are looking at the big picture. Especially around the holidays.. man.December 20, 2006 at 2:42 pm #22472"mark.d":26tu29hk wrote:I beleive the americains were trying to stop communisim,[/quote:26tu29hk]
and probably stopped the spread of communism in like minded asian countries.December 20, 2006 at 3:25 pm #22473freeboater76Participant
[quote:15n3ockb]So what if Iraq was REALLY about oil.[/quote:15n3ockb] If it really was about oil than the administration has a responsibility to say that is what it is about. Not fictitious WMD’s or "freedom" or "peace and stability in Iraq" which is all a load of crap. Its morally reprehensible to endager the lives of anyone based on lies and deception.
And about the tyranny of Saddam? Any one wonder why there were no insurgents BEFORE the US occupation? Its strange yeah? What is going on in that country that would prevent people from rising up against a terrible, brutal dictator only to turn against the people who are "the forces of liberty"? Clearly they have the will and the means to fight against oppression so what gives? I don’t know….it just strikes me as odd.
This has nothing to do with paddling…so I will stop.December 20, 2006 at 3:57 pm #22474
Are you defending Saddam? Like anyone really knows what was going on in Iraq except the people that were there. I don’t think that dictatorships are condusive to freedom of speech and opposing viewpoints. How about the iraq secret police complex they found that details 30 years of oppression and hundreds of thousands of murders. Even with a puppet democracy, there isn’t the threat of your whole family being raped, tortured and murdered for you having a specific belief. Plus with the whole worlds media in Iraq, insurgents and their recruiters are able to exist with a certain amount of impunity.
Politically you can’t base your platform on securing natural resources through occupation. That doesn’t suggest that these resources are less important.December 20, 2006 at 4:16 pm #22475freeboater76Participant
like I said…not the forum.
Not defending Saddam, I agree, brutal dictator. Really bad guy. Not a fan.
Just asking the question is all.
[quote:qnatyhim]Even with a puppet democracy, there isn’t the threat of your whole family being raped, tortured and murdered for you having a specific belief.[/quote:qnatyhim]…no but there is the threat of your whole family being murdered/violated in bombing campaigns, "security" raids, etc.
It doesn’t look like what replaced the brutal dictatorship is any better.
But like I said…not the forum…December 20, 2006 at 5:24 pm #22476GrantParticipant
POBO is backDecember 20, 2006 at 5:53 pm #22477Open GateParticipant"POBO":1m5xf6jd wrote:I suggest you travel there sometime for a taste of the real culture and a beautiful countryside.
1 – Hope I get there someday (got so many on my ”to visit list”…). Specially if there’s good paddling to do !
2 – Man what a can of worms that thread has opened…I guess the war subject is a hot one, specially when our country is involved in one(I hate the sound of that ).
Back to the basics…Happy paddling !December 20, 2006 at 6:19 pm #22478"mark.d":2h2g907b wrote:I beleive the americains were trying to stop communisim,[/quote:2h2g907b]
The Americans marketed the Vietnam war as a means to stop the North Vietnamese army(whom they believed to be run by the Chinese communists) from overunning south Vietnam.
In actuality The Vietnamese hated China(at the time) and it was a civil war between North and South much like the civil war in the US.
Similarities to the current War in Afganistan: Once again the US continues to ‘police’ the world and I use that term loosely. The Americans have a knack for interfering in other countries business when they stand to profit. They are also fighting a war with no clear victors in the end, much like Vietnam.
If you believe that the US isn’t more of a dictatorship now than it ever has been, then you are also wrong. Perhaps you should change the channel from CNN and start watching CBC or BBC.
POBODecember 20, 2006 at 7:05 pm #22479
US originally got involved by aiding the French occupation which was failing dismally and ended up in the creation of the communist state to the north. Don’t think those were just rumours about chinas involvement either. Ho Chi Mihn was at one point a top advisor in the red army. Not to mention China (and Russia through proxy) were directly supplying and training Vietnamese for the battle with the French and later against the US. I don’t think you know jack about the conflict. If you think those regimes weren’t our enemies at the time then I have no idea where you get your information from. If the US and allies pulled out of all foreign countries theres no telling what the world would look like.
Anyhow. There are just as many people that worship left wing news sources or depend on the daily show and colbert report to get their information. Sounds like you are letting propoganda and buzz words get in the way of common sense and like I said, the big picture.December 20, 2006 at 7:07 pm #22480BobbieParticipant"harris":1rwrepni wrote:The biggest similarity between Vietnam then and Iraq/Afghan now[/quote:1rwrepni]
Harris, a similarity between Iraq and Afghanistan is implicit in this sentence, but the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan are vastly different, putting Vietnam aside for a moment…
I won’t state my opinions on either war, but it always drives me bonkers that Canadian opinion on Afghanistan is heavily influenced by attitudes toward American policies on Iraq. Try to discuss the issue of Canadian deployment in Afghanistan with somebody who is very strongly opposed to it, and then count the seconds before they refer to the American occupation of Iraq, or the US in general…..
I respect each and every opinion on Afghanistan, for or against, provided it doesn’t make fallacious comparisons to Iraq. It’s sort of like saying: All Komodo Dragons are lizards. All Komodo Dragons are dangerous. Therefore, all lizards are dangerous.
I’m really sorry, I couldn’t leave that alone…..
Otherwise, tally-ho! Good reading fun debates with POBO! Yay!
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