June 25, 2006 at 4:15 am #1839wavesporterParticipant
hey, i wasn;t able to make it to the Kip
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but i would like to donate. how would i/others go about this?
thanks! ” title=”Very Happy” />
jamesJune 26, 2006 at 2:15 pm #18649
Please send all donations to:
Les Amis de La Riviere Kipawa
in care of
433A Rue Bedard
Lasalle, Province of Quebec
At this time we cannot issue tax deduction receipts sadly.
I’m just back from the Kipawa Rally, big water and excitement. PWGSC put a snow fence across the river to prevent Kayakers from running the river through the dam sluice.
We are dealing with supreme evil, all citizens have a moral obligation to support financially or otherwise the work of Les Amis to bring sanity back into our public processes, environmental assessments, water control, navigation of our lakes rivers and streams, and use of public funds.
Help us fight these nefarious n’er do wells!
PeteJune 26, 2006 at 4:57 pm #18650meebisParticipant
I don’t know much about the specific issues about the dam at Laniel. I like running it because it is a pretty fun drop and relatively safe as far as dams go. If at the end of the construction the dam is no longer runnable I would be sad.
However, this past weekend the site was an active construction site. Which changes the safety picture significantly. Personally I have no significant problems with our not being able to run that big downstream V on a temporary basis. In fact, I thought it was rather courtious of them to alow us through their site to portage (all be it not much safer climbing that rock pile)
Did I sit at the top of the dam with a bunch of people looking at each other and saying “should we just go?” hell yea.
So to be supremely evil are we talking Darth Vader evil? or just Shooter McGavin bad?
(Have donated to Les Amis)June 26, 2006 at 5:33 pm #18651
I suppose its like being a little bit “pregnant”.
The construction project ended at the north side of the old dam. The river was navigable as it has been for the last 40 years on record. In my view, the fence was ereected to prove an ill conceived point, not to protect anybody.
As you said yourself, the fence likely caused more harm as yet to be determined.
The fence created, in my view, a very dangerous situation, much more dangerous than allowing traditional navigation which has been proven safe for whitewater boaters, time and again.
The embodiment of evil lies with malice aforethought.
In my opinion, ‘supremely evil’ seems to fit nicely from fence all the way back to project conception whether to affect individuals or the environment.June 27, 2006 at 9:08 pm #18652mypalParticipant
As someone who has run the dam at least 20 times I have to say that the ill concieved fencing proved a bigger hazard than the actual running of the dam.
We purposely drove up Thursday morning to inspect the drop at minimal flow , alas nothing noted, as such we decided to inspect the actual drop Sunday from the safety of our boats thus proving the “Dam” Operations people wrong again.
Anyhow thanks to all involved in hosting another memorable Kipawa weekend.
About the funniest thing I witnessed was the “Holeriders”(flippers) cat doing the pussy line at Picnic thus catapulting the shocked occupants into the water. Serves all of you who take the chicken line more than once right.
PS Which on of you used you fingers and toes to actually get 1987-2006 to equal 20 years on the Kipawa T’s!!!!!!!!!!!!!June 28, 2006 at 1:27 pm #18653
Fingers and Toes, fingers and toes, 40 things we share
41 if you include the fact that we don’t care…
Funny how that slipped through. We caught it in the draft but final execution missed it.
More T shirts left for any that want one and didn’t get one. they are part of our fund raising for the legal case.
I am working on a final draft to the Candian Dam Association : Navigation of Water Control Structures. The abstract has already been accepted for the CDA meeting in Quebec City this fall.
anybody interested in reading it?
Should go over like a lead balloon.
PeteJune 28, 2006 at 4:25 pm #18654Kevin MParticipant
even though19 years have passed since the first rally this makes the 20th rally.
Construction guys lied to us on day one. They said they had dowels all accross the bottom of the river bed.
The person in the most danger was one of our guys on Sunday. He was walking along the gravel road to the dam and when kayakers started running it the Security guy drove down the road with his foot to the floor and almost hit him.
A big thank you to those thoughtful people for keeping us safe.
Erecting fences on moving water and driving dangerously. We’d be a lot safer if they would stop trying to save us.June 28, 2006 at 5:08 pm #18655stefanoParticipant
We were speaking with the man who owns the convenience store at the putin campground – this guy just happens to be a diver as well who dives below the dam when the river is off.
He told us there were tons of dowels in the riverbed below the dam – he used them to pull himself along the bottom while he was diving, and said he saw them up to 2 feet long.
Even though nobody was hurt, what would the reaction be if someone running the dam had ripped their boat in half hitting one, or worse, injured themselves hitting one? I think the construction company is completly justified in wanting to not have people run the dam while it’s being repaired firstly so nobody gets hurt and secondly so said hurt person doesn’t take them to court for not stopping them from running.
I know you’d like to think you wouldn’t take action, but how would you feel if you’d injured yourself to the point of permanent disability by slicing your leg open off a man-made structure on the bottom of the river?
I think we’re being unreasonable in saying we deserver to run the dam no matter what – would you drive across a highway bridge that was being repaired just because you’ve crossed that bridge every day, even if it you might fall through the bridge or destroy your car on the exposed rebar?
Let them fix them dam, don’t run it until it’s done.
And please, don’t mistake this as an attack about maintaining nagivibility of the dam in the future – this just pertains to running the dam while it’s a construction site.June 28, 2006 at 6:44 pm #18656ManoParticipant
From what I understand you are absolutely right about the rebar being there, but I’m told it’s been there as long as the dam has and when the dam is open (which it was)it’s about 15 feet under water. So since we only run the dam when it’s open it really isn’t an issue, matter of fact they are working on the river right side, where they are going to build the first of the new gates, then redirect the water to the right while they start on the left side, I understand they haven’t done any work below the openning of the dam. Either way if the rebar is fifteen feet down, even if you flipped you’ld never come close to hitting it. As far as liability is concerned we’re running the water and it was allot less trecherous than the walk along the side of the dam where someone could easily have broken an ankle and sued the construction conpany. They have no proof that running the dam is unsafe, I know a number of people ran it this past weekend and still there are no incidence of injury.June 28, 2006 at 6:55 pm #18657mypalParticipant
Like I said, Checked it out in LOW/NO water, at 30kph and 8feet above I doubt that I would have hit anything. Thanks for your concern and remember to do your own Risk Assessment before crossing the road or paddling.
BTW Did you count the rocks at the bottom of Hollywood? Much scarier to me.
mikeJune 28, 2006 at 9:31 pm #18658
If rebar was there then those folks did not lie, albeit it may have been a half truth.
If the rebar was not there, then when did their lies start and end?
My assessment was that the two left sluices were NOT part of the construction site, and the fence was a gross extention of the site over navigable waters simply to make a point, and nothing to do with anybody’s safety.
Then there are the other factors, the rocky portage around the fence, the security guards and others on the site who may or may not have been acting in a safe manner or in a safety concious manner.
Hey: write your MP and complain. Make a stink. Write the papers, write BUSH maybe he’ll do something.
Its time to speak out. This board is a good way to start.
PeteJune 28, 2006 at 9:41 pm #18659
From the literature (ICRD criteria as per colorado Water control management Board 2003 and Snel, 1999) it is known that .4 meters of water depth is safe for a swimmer in order not to hit bottom. While a kayak reaches a depth of .15 meters, a raft even less.
The paddle, however, reaches .4 meters. Nominal depth should be .75 to .9 meters to enable kayaks to end squirt and the paddler to roll. Less than .4 meters, and a paddler has a possibility of hitting bottom when rolling.
Well: how deep was the water, who are these experts anyway, and where was that rebar? If 1 meter (three feet or more) then the rebar was never a hazzard if it was there, … and of course never a hazzard if it wasn’t there.
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