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Right of Way rules

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  • #2451
    Jackson Franchetto
    Participant

    Who Has right of way on the lake, windsurfers or kayakers?

    thnkas

    #20521
    TimH
    Participant

    I don’t really know the law (so if I’m wrong, someone correct me) but I would imagine they both have the same priority legally. So right of way would be based on position, direction of travel, etc. That being said, it’s generally easier to do a quick turn in a kayak than on a sail board, so etiquette-wise I would lean towards you (kayak) trying to avoid them (windsurfer) more than making them avoid you.

    #20522
    Grant
    Participant

    General rule of thumb is: wind power always has the right of way, if only moving under sail.

    The topic came up in a boating class regarding sail boats vs. canoes, and the wind dependant vessel has right of way.

    #20523
    Peter Karwacki
    Participant

    Self power takes precedence over wind power, or power of any kind as long as this is not reckless endangerment.

    Pete

    #20524
    Grant
    Participant

    Due to the responses I decided to investigate some further. Michigan and most states in the US treat sail and human power vessels in the same catagory and therefore the rules are not black and white. They both have the same duty to avoid each other. (Thank you westlaw)

    There are rebuttable presumtions that have to due with where the vessels are (lake, shipping channel, down current, fishing, etc.). Both sail and paddle have the duty to stay out of the way of large powered vessels in marked shipping lanes. The Case law on point (US Admirialty and Michigan) tend to side with the sail powered vessel in 90% of the cases unless the non motorized vessel is anchored, fishing, or disabled.

    The statutes are based on sail powered vessel on set courses, so a windsurfer may not apply.

    Are the navigation rules different in Canada? The USC generally adopts the accepted international rules for navigation.

    #20525
    Bobbie
    Participant

    Ok…

    Legal nonsense aside… When I’m windsurfing I’m traveling at speeds of up to 35 knots…

    Believe me, if there are kayaks out there I’m avoiding them, not the other way around!

    Although not quite as fast, the same thing should apply to kiteboards…

    Basically, regardless of what the law states, if you’re in a kayak and you get hit by a windsurfer or a kiteboarder then the person who hit you is a total sh*thead!

    The only time I’d say this wouldn’t apply is if you decide to kayak right in the thick of a top windsurfing or kiteboarding spot when there’s another perfectly good wave spot nearby where the kiters and windsurfers tend not to go….. It’s generally the case that kiters and windsurfers can’t get to the spot where the biggest shorebreak happens because it’s often along a land spit or a breakwall where the wind isn’t clean…

    If you absolutely have to be in the same place as the windsurfers and kiters, then you’re basically a stationary object… Even when you’re surfing a wave…..

    If the windsurfer isn’t planing, or is attempting a waterstart, or a kiter is trying to get their kite off the water, then you should probably try to get out of their way….. But isn’t that obvious <img loading=” title=”Confused” /> :roll:

    #20526
    deemo
    Participant
    "Bobbie":13k8ozpj wrote:
    Ok…

    Legal nonsense aside… When I’m windsurfing I’m traveling at speeds of up to 35 knots…

    Believe me, if there are kayaks out there I’m avoiding them, not the other way around!

    Although not quite as fast, the same thing should apply to kiteboards…

    Basically, regardless of what the law states, if you’re in a kayak and you get hit by a windsurfer or a kiteboarder then the person who hit you is a total sh*thead!

    The only time I’d say this wouldn’t apply is if you decide to kayak right in the thick of a top windsurfing or kiteboarding spot when there’s another perfectly good wave spot nearby where the kiters and windsurfers tend not to go….. It’s generally the case that kiters and windsurfers can’t get to the spot where the biggest shorebreak happens because it’s often along a land spit or a breakwall where the wind isn’t clean…

    If you absolutely have to be in the same place as the windsurfers and kiters, then you’re basically a stationary object… Even when you’re surfing a wave…..

    If the windsurfer isn’t planing, or is attempting a waterstart, or a kiter is trying to get their kite off the water, then you should probably try to get out of their way….. But isn’t that obvious <img loading=” title=”Confused” /> :roll:[/quote:13k8ozpj]

    well said Rob!
    P.S. Have you been able to get out yet with the wind season upon us?

    #20527
    Attila
    Participant

    There is a saying about giving right of way.”Here is the story of Michael O’Day who died defending his right of way; he was right dead right as he sailed along but he’s just as dead if he’d been wrong.” Now that being said, the rule of thumb is whoever has more manoeuvrability should clear the way. I’ve never windsurfed, but I would think the kayak should give way because they are more manoeuvrable, and in the event of a collision the kayaker would probably sustain more damage anyway so it is in their interest to get out of the way. :wink:
    Cheers,
    Attila

    #20528
    Bobbie
    Participant
    "deemo":2qssewpc wrote:
    P.S. Have you been able to get out yet with the wind season upon us?[/quote:2qssewpc]

    Yeah, I got out last Wednesday afternoon! Not bad… Sideshore at Cherry 12 knots gusting to 25….. Little bit gusty, but the gusts were big, and you could see the windline as they approached really clearly…

    I was on the Gull Saturday & Sunday, and I’m thinking unless Parkhill comes up I’m gonna focus on windsurfing now… Apparently it was steady 25 knots on Saturday :cry: (8.1 on the Gull….. :cry: )

    "Attila":2qssewpc wrote:
    I’ve never windsurfed, but I would think the kayak should give way because they are more manoeuvrable[/quote:2qssewpc]

    Not even close… On a plane a windsurfer turns as fast as you tip the board with your feet… Think snowboarding, but faster, and with more control due to the fin.

    The only time a windsurfer isn’t maneouverable is pointed further into the eye of the wind than a close haul, or downwind more than a broad reach. Otherwise a windsurfer can turn up to 120 degrees (from close haul to broad reach or vice-versa) almost instantly.

    I’ll say it again… Kayaks are stationary objects to a windsurfer… Might as well be a rock or a buoy… Totally stationary… So go ahead and do whatever you want to give right of way… It’ll amuse the windsurfers and kiters :lol:

    If you don’t believe me, come down to Cherry Beach sometime this fall and try to hit a windsurfer in your kayak. If I’m there, I’ll give you $1000.00 if you can hit me :wink:

    #20529
    cboater
    Participant

    Any kiters in the Ottawa area? Good kiting resources? Wouldnt mind getting into it… sometime soon..

    #20530
    deemo
    Participant
    "cboater":j7cqrhrf wrote:
    Any kiters in the Ottawa area? Good kiting resources? Wouldnt mind getting into it… sometime soon..[/quote:j7cqrhrf]

    I’m not in the Ottawa region, but I could sell you a good beginner package!

    #20531
    Bobbie
    Participant

    Bjorn Dunkerbeck:
    Robby[1].%20shoot.jpg
    Someone on Jaws in Maui:
    Ande[1].t%20Jaws.jpg
    Me in Bonaire :smile: :
    [img:2beqvept]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1215330/rob-kayak2.jpg[/img:2beqvept]
    FAST! Like, need a helicopter to shoot video… That kinda fast:
    Bjorn[1].lkings.jpg
    [img:2beqvept]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1215330/Dropping%20in%20at%20Jaws.jpg[/img:2beqvept]

    #20532
    deemo
    Participant
    "Bobbie":2yr4mys2 wrote:
    Yeah, I got out last Wednesday afternoon! Not bad… Sideshore at Cherry 12 knots gusting to 25….. Little bit gusty, but the gusts were big, and you could see the windline as they approached really clearly…

    I was on the Gull Saturday & Sunday, and I’m thinking unless Parkhill comes up I’m gonna focus on windsurfing now… Apparently it was steady 25 knots on Saturday :cry: (8.1 on the Gull….. :cry: )
    [/quote:2yr4mys2]

    I was kiting on wednesday night at Long beach, had a really good session. As well as Saturday, and it was howling. guys on windsurfs were out on their 5.4s 5.5s.

    I’m in the same boat for waiting around for parkhill. Have no desire to go anywhere far to paddle if its windy. I’m within half hour of a good spot, no matter which way the wind is blowing. And if its N, N/E then 10 minutes.
    You should come down, we’ll go kite/surf and the hit the weir or secret wave if its up.

    #20533
    Bobbie
    Participant
    "deemo":1jgkdwj9 wrote:
    I’m within half hour of a good spot, no matter which way the wind is blowing. And if its N, N/E then 10 minutes.
    You should come down, we’ll go kite/surf and the hit the weir or secret wave if its up.[/quote:1jgkdwj9]

    Sounds good, man. I’m busy for Thanksgiving weekend, but the three weekends in October after that, I’m game… As long as we don’t miss your brother’s party (ah, he’d probably miss his party too, and join us :lol: )…

    If you’ve got a weekday in mind, and the marine forecast is good, give me a call, and I’ll try to sneak off from work!

    ~R

    #20534
    surfboy
    Participant

    I’m interested

    John Mason

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